Woke Jesus! Best selling author exposes what’s happening

Lance: It’s a lot of fun being here in the production studio. We’ve got hammers hammering inbackos moving around. Stuff flying all over the place. Whatever those things are that carry stuff you know. Whatever the forklifts. Yes. Forklifts. That’s what’s moving around us in every direction. I’m here with my son Carl.

Carl: Howdy.

Lance: Who got done interviewing Lucas Miles and I want to go that. I want to go there in a second. What I want to say to you in the midst of all of this is you’re going to have to be aware of the disruptions in life and there’s a disruption coming to you in the food industry. What’s going on with these meat factories and chicken places and egg places burning down is like a bizarre conspiracy. An open border is allowing as far as I’m concerned terrorism to get through and I’m waiting for the link between the infrastructure attack of the United States and foreign interference to be there because our borders are open. That’s why I’m saying go to “Lancewallnau.com/Patriot” to get the Patriot Food Supply. Make sure you got a 30-day supply of food because the Marxist are having an effect that is going to be an unstable time while we take it down.

Now, Carl, you interviewed Lucas Miles who’s a best-selling author. He’s got a podcast on EpochTimes on Church and State. But tell me about what happened in that interview. We got a minute 30 seconds. What was of interest are people going to want to listen for?

Carl: Yeah, for sure. So, his book Woke Jesus really contemplates and discusses the different theological basis of not just CRT but really how we got to we are today with this whole leftist Jesus movement. The whole idea that well, Jesus was just like a good guy who was a socialist, that’s why he was feeding everybody. But there was a number of other theories as to how that happened, how that transpired and so he did more than just scratch the surface on a number of the theological and philosophical ideals that ended up lending itself towards this woke Jesus movement that we’re seeing today.

Lance: Wow. So, do you feel like he clarified for folks what they or how much I mean you think we do It’s a big subject to take on as well.

Carl: Right. He at least initiated the conversation. So, in the book he does a lot more in-depth analysis as far as where we were and how we got here. But in the conversation, it was really just like well here’s what you can expect to find in the literature.

Lance: So, I’m telling you guys this this battle that we have in culture. It’s kind of, I think here it kind of becomes more clear to me. Because I mean this is going to be a place where we’re obviously doing a special recording for you guys. Where I want to have access to the front lines of media. But I do believe that the media mounted is going to be even more important than ever before. Don’t you think Carl that there’s almost like a real role that media plays now for truth telling and challenging, manipulated corporate narratives?

Carl: Absolutely, but it’s also imperative to know that life imitates art. So, it’s not just the distribution, it’s the creation of the art that the media is distributing. That’s in my opinion more important.

Lance: Alright. So, we’re going to do creating new media is what you’re talking about as well as distribution.

Carl: Yes, sir.

Lance: We’re going to listen to Carl and listen to Lucas Miles and we’re going to hear more from both of them in the future. They’re the next generation. Let’s watch it.

Carl: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Lance Wallnau Show filling in for my father is me. His son not Lance. Carl, hi. How you doing? Joining me today is Pastor Lucas Miles. Thanks for being on the show.

Lucas Miles: Hey, thanks for having me.

Carl: Absolutely. So today, we’re talking about Woke Jesus. Is that right?

Lucas Miles: Yes, Woke Jesus, my new book, Woke Jesus the False Messiah Destroying Christianity.

Carl: Very cool. So, what is woke Jesus and how is he destroying Christianity?

Lucas Miles: I’d like to think it’s the definitive guide to understand wokeism, its history, how it’s affected the church, all the implications surrounding that, and ultimately what we can do about it.I think that I quote here, this is pretty important to mention. I quote this at the start of the book. There’s an early church father Irenaeus and he makes the comment that in his book against heresies written in the second century. He said, the reason why the first century church was unable to fully refute Gnosticism is because they didn’t understand it fully.

Carl: Okay.

Lucas Miles: And then he writes a 600-page book to help the church understand Gnosticism. Now, I didn’t write a 600-page book. It’s only about 200 pages, but I really believe that that the key to refuting Gnosticism and dismantling just all these false ideologies that we’re seeing in our culture today is fully understanding what they’re actually saying, what they’re presenting so we can really recognize the falsies and that we can stand upon the truth of the word of God.

Carl: Beautiful. So, what are some of the strongholds that you’ve seen and that you acknowledge in the book?

Lucas Miles: So, in the book, I start with kind of a deep dive into History of this. So, beginning in the post enlightenment period we see the birth which is like 1700s late 1700s. We see the birth of what’s known as the historical Jesus. The historical Jesus teaching was basically an attempt to utilize some of the attributes that came out or the values that came out of the enlightenment like critical thinking and the Darwinism and the scientific method. And for the first time really in the history of Christianity, the Bible was under scrutiny. Because it doesn’t line up does Jesus raising from the dead or feeding the 5,000 or walking on water does that fit with the scientific method or what we know about all of these great new truths brought out during the enlightenment.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: And so, basically man became a little bit too confident in our own understanding of the world and it downplayed faith. So, these biographies were written by a lot of German theologians was where much of this was sort of centered. But they wrote these biographies trying to make sense of the miracles of scripture and really downplaying the divinity of Christ by uplifting his humanity. So, they would explain that Jesus didn’t really walk on water that there was a raft underneath him or that he didn’t really, one of them it said he didn’t really feed the 5,000 by multiplying bread and fish but he actually had a group of these mysterious monks in a cave nearby that were baking bread. It’s like a full Panera inside this cave and they’re just sending out bread and fish for him to be able to feed everybody. But some of these were ridiculous but some were taken seriously and over time this lasted till about the early 1900s and during that time it really gave birth to critical theology. We saw the impact of Marx and Hagel and other thinkers during that time.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: And that found its way and crept into Christianity. We see the birth of critical theology. We see the birth of liberation theology in the 1950s through a Catholic priest named Gutierrez in Latin America that sort of combine Catholicism with this theological hitchhiker as I call it of Marxism. We also see the birth of black liberation theology in the United States where a guy named James Cohn who would experience a great deal of racism when he was younger and I don’t want to ever dismiss that.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: But what where that took him was he sought this a partner in Marxism to be able to combine to the African American church at that time and gave birth to Black Liberation.Cohen was actually brought into the Obama White House and was champion and given award.He just passed away a few years ago, but his writings were very prevalent in sort of this this race conversation in America. I think in many ways, it was the more spiritualized precursor to what we have today of critical race theory.

Carl: Oh wow.

Lucas Miles: So, I go to this whole history bring us up to where we are today and then we deal,in the book I deal a lot with the modern implications of wokeism and how that is affected our Bible college, how it’s affected our denominational churches in America and really how we can recognize it and what we can do about it.

Carl: Excellent, and I think a lot of that really speaks to the idea that we don’t see things as they are. We see them as we are. Right?

Lucas Miles: Yeah.

Carl: So, like the upbringing of that particular gentleman and how that really shaped the way that he viewed the world and then starting espousing his own doctrine and his own theology and then that impact, imprinted and impacted the other people who were listening.

Lucas Miles: Yeah, it’s interesting when you look at something like Critical Race Theory. One of the reasons I tell people all the time that it’s so antithetical to scripture and to Christianity is because it actually robs from us the ability to be able to suffer for the sake of Christ. It makes it about me.

Carl: Yeah.

Lucas Miles: It makes it about my skin color, my country of origin, my race, my sexuality, my gender, my sexual preference, these sorts of things.

Carl: Yeah. All these catalogs.

Lucas Miles: Yes, rather than, what the Bible teaches us is that the world “hates you”, because it first hated him and that because the world hates Jesus because it hates God, it us as a result and so persecution for the believer is always an empowered moment where we recognize that we have the ability to suffer for Christ. But what you see is that persecution from a critical theologian or a critical theorist standpoint, it’s always victimhood. It’s always because of some sort of systemic oppression that you can never do anything about and that you’re just really just stuck in.

Carl: Yeah, for sure. So, what is the current ideal of the woke Jesus movement?

Lucas Miles: I think that in many ways, a spectrum that it is it’s spread across a number of beliefs. There are some in the progressive church that really identify more with the critical race aspect of it. It’s a race-focused Christianity. It’s sort of the remnants of black liberation theology but made available to people of all skin color. What James Cohn would have written is that white Christians need to become black in order to become saved. And so, he had and that they had to crucify the white Christ and embrace the black Christ. These are some of the, it’s the tone of what he was speaking. And that sort of carries in today. I think that Cohen has a lot more influence on the church today than what most people don’t even know his name but they know, they see the after effects of that.

There’re other sides of progressive church that are very focused on in their hyper sexualized. We see churches hosting drag shows. We see that critical queer theory has really infiltrated affected the church. These are the churches that are flying the rainbow flag above their, often times above the cross in our down town capitals around the US and major city markets and I think that these churches are, it’s the same issue it’s still based upon critical theory, but it has a focus. So, those two groups often times find commonality together. They can support one another but they’re focused on different things. And so, we could go on there’s some churches that have more of that liberation theology of the Catholic version of it, where they’ve focused on the rich versus poor.

Carl: Yeah.

Lucas Miles: The same way that Mark’s taught proletariat versus the bourgeoisie, we see that rich versus poor argument still happen today and that’s still prevalent. So, some of the social justice teaching, social justice movement that we see in modern Christianity that really went through a lot of our denominations in this nation is really rooted in that liberation theology framework.

Carl: Yeah. What do you say to the people who say well you have to reach these people where they’re at? Because you can’t just expect them to come to you. So, we need to have some type of acceptance or some type of doctrine of yeah, just acceptance for where they are and this is a place of welcoming.

Lucas Miles: What I want people to see through this book, Woke Jesus is that the true Jesus, the biblical Christ, he is the answer to injustice. He is the answer to identity. He is the answer to pain and trauma and loss. He is the answer to poverty, to suffering and I think that if people really saw him for who he is. One of the things I write about in the book, we hear this word intersection a lot.

Carl: Yeah.

Lucas Miles: It’s used often times in the conversation on race. It’s also used at times in the conversation on sexuality. When a when a critical race theorist is talking about intersectionality if somebody’s not a familiar with the term that’s listening. Basically what they’re meaning is that all of us have an intersection to a level of oppression. So, a white woman has more victimhood than a white male in what they would believe is a white hygiene or power structure-based society and so a black man has more intersectionality has more levels of intersectionality of oppression than a white woman does. So, he’s the next step down in that. A black woman has another level down in that. A black gay woman has another even level down. A black gay trans woman has another, so it just keeps going. It’s almost like trying to compare like who’s got, the worst, you know, sort of framework.

Carl: It’s like a one-up mentality.

Lucas Miles: Exactly and so what I present in this book, one of the things I talk about is that Jesus is the intersectionality that mankind is looking for. He is the intersection of the sin of man and the holiness of God meeting each other on the cross. He completed that fully. So, I understand. I don’t want to make light of or ever I mean, some of the things that we see certainly come from the left are ridiculous. They’re laughable. But the pain that people are feeling that’s driving them to these attributes. I understand them. I just think they’re looking for the solution in the wrong place.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: Jesus Christ if they would set aside this woke Jesus that is empty, that has nothing to offer, that’s not even based on a real human being or deity that ever existed. And they would actually look to the true Christ, the biblical Christ that we see presented fully in the scriptures who’s revealed to us by the Holy Spirit who indwells on the inside of us through faith. They would find the answer to everything that pains them in this life, the oppression that they feel because the reality is there is a such thing as a systemic oppression. It’s called sin and really the curse of death.

Carl: Yeah.

Lucas Miles: And because of the fall of man, we have entered into systemic oppression but when you come to Christ, you get freed of that and you’re no longer living a life of oppression, you’re living a life of victory in Christ. So, that’s the message of this book woke Jesus and I really believe because all of have been affected by this. We have to educate our ourselves on these things. So, I want to get this in the believer’s hands. I always tell people buy one for yourself and buy one for your pastor and ask your pastor what he thinks about it because there’s a lot of people that are woke churches and they don’t know it.

Carl: Yeah.

Lucas Miles: And so, you need to get this in your pastor’s hand and see what he thinks to find out is my church woke or not if you’re not sure.

Carl: Yeah. So, I’m also reminded of the saying, love the sinner, hate the sin and an aspect of love is total unconditional acceptance. So, what would you say to that type of idea as far as loving these sinners while also accepting who they could be but meeting them where they’re at?

Lucas Miles: I think there’s a difference between giving somebody dignity as a human being, honoring the fact that they’ve been made in the image of God and accepting every idea that they have or accepting everything that they say is true.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: Love is not the same as acceptance. Love is actually being willing to tell somebody the truth. I shared another time today that I’m glad I have my team here. We’re racing around all these interviews at the National Religious Broadcasters and I want somebody on my team that can say, hey, Lucas you still got some of your lunch left in your teeth before I go on camera.

Carl: Rather than just accepting the fact.

Lucas Miles: Yeah. I identify as a man with lettuce in my teeth and we need we need people in our lives that can tell us the truth that can love us. If you tell me that the sky is green and the grass is blue, I’m going to counter that and I’m going to say, I love you but that’s not true and I want to help get you into with reality because reality benefits us. There is no benefit by living in a fantasy world and here’s the problem is the church is has been behind in understanding this. The church is still trying to figure out how to deal with the issue of gay marriage and same-sex marriage.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: And that was like so 2010 or eleven or whatever it was. Now, we have to figure out how to deal with the transgender movement, how to deal with children who think they’re animals, that they’re furries, and we’re behind in that conversation and we’re behind because we have taken the time to understand it. So, we have to learn. It’s really what I would call counter intelligence. We have to learn really the arguments of the other side so that we know how to clearly present the truth of the gospel in such a way that can help set people free.

Carl: What are some of the top arguments on the other side that you are convicted that believerneed to know be aware of and be able to have counterpoints too?

Lucas Miles: Yes, so you’ll hear people say and I think most pastors don’t even know how to deal with this. You’ll hear people say that Jesus never talks about sexuality that he never addresses marriage or never defines marriage in a way and so and people aren’t sure what to do with that. You’ll hear arguments about well in 19 I think it’s 48 that there was a Bible translation that introduced the word homosexual and so that word was never in the Bible before that and so this is a nuance that’s introduced and that the Bible never really teaches against homosexuality. These are false concepts but there are arguments that are presented that I think even pastors sometimes go, they know how to answer.

Carl: Depending on their school theology.

Lucas Miles: Yes, exactly and so we also see arguments that Jesus was a socialist and that he taught socialism and so how do you stand up against that? We see Jesus was because he was a refugee that we should have open borders and we need to support illegal immigrants. There’s, I saw a TikTok influencer here. This one of the more ridiculous ones that said that because Jesus likely wore a tunic that he was and that’s a lot like a dress that that sort of makes him a cross dresser potentially even trans and he called John his beloved. So, Jesus might even have been gay. So, these are being present, in the name of this video has hundreds of thousands of views on TikTok. There was a famous story this last year, there was a dissertation written by a top-leveltheology student at a major university in England. He wrote a dissertation about how Jesus became transgender on the cross and that the spear in his side opened up a wound in his midsection and that bled out.

So, now he has a gaping hole in his midsection that’s bleeding as well as his male genitalia and at that moment he became transgender, and that the pain of the cross is suffering the cross allowed him to relate to the transgender community and that he showed his trans affirming nature on the cross. This if it wasn’t so disgusting if it wasn’t so a much of an affront to our savior, it would be laughable. But this is presented as a doctorate dissertation by a top-level theology student and it went around the world the proclamation of this. So, the church is not ready for that. We’re still like going like here’s my lesson this week is don’t gossip and the world is so far moving you know faster than that. It doesn’t mean we abandon the teaching of basic tenets of Christianity, of course we need those all the more.

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: But we need to learn how to be able to address what’s actually happen. When you look at the famous Christian minds of the past, I love reading Augustine. I mean, he’s dealing with all the relevant issues. Thomas Aquinas, who is battling the scientific explosion that was happening in the Muslim community showing that Christianity is actually a superior scholastic, faith that he’s presenting.

Carl: Yeah.

Lucas Miles: So, the church needs this resurgence of really being able to counter the message of this world to dive into it to see that it’s not political to talk about marriage or abortion from the pulpit. It’s called you’re teaching

Carl: Right.

Lucas Miles: And that’s what we are called to do as pastors in this nation.

Carl: Wow. So, an incredible, powerful message on Woke Jesus. So, please tell our audience how they can get a copy of the book, how they can follow you on socials.

Lucas Miles: Yes, if you’re looking for more information, the book is Woke Jesus, The False Messiah Destroying Christianity. It’s available by news from Humanix Book which is Newsmax’s Publishing Arm. Really honored to be part of their team. You can get it wherever books are sold. Amazon, BardsandNoble, ChristianBooks.com. You can also head over to Lucas Miles. org. You can order copies there as well and I think we’re shipping almost as fast as all the other platforms. So, if you want to order direct and support us, you can do so there. I have all my other titles are available there as well and if you’re interested in having me speak or want to check out my speaking schedule and book tour, you might find if I’m in a location near you.

Carl: Excellent. Thank you, Lucas. I really appreciate being on the show.

Lucas Miles: Thanks for having me on the program. Big fan of everything you guys are doing.

Carl: Thank you. Thank you very much and thank you guys for tuning in. We’ll see you next time.

Closing: Did you enjoy this latest episode? Remember to share it with your friends because the more knowledge you have, the better equipped you are to navigate the world.

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